‘Little doubt’ de Grood was psychotic when he killed five people: psychiatrist

A psychiatrist treating Matthew de Grood has testified the 24-year-old man was under a psychosis at the time of the Brentwood killings two years ago.

“He was suffering from a mental disorder and from our perspective he was clearly psychotic at the time of the offences,” Dr. Alberto Choy testified in open court.

Choy says he was unable to come up with any kind of a psychosis but adds it’s possible de Grood may have been schizophrenic at the time of the killings.

“When we approach an NCR case we are guided by what we read in the Criminal Code but our interpretation is to first determine if there is a mental disorder present,” said Choy. “Our read of what’s been defined in the law is this is a disorder where there is an abnormality of brain function in one way or another.”

He didn’t want to stipulate, his assessment of de Grood was not a complete one but adds it was more a picture of how he presented at the time and suggested that a mental disorder was the likely cause of the psychosis.
Choy didn’t do a physical examination or any further neurological or psychological testing.

According to the expert witness, an individual can be fit to stand trial but still not be found criminally responsible.

“It’s an evaluation of the person’s mental state at the time and in this case it would have been more than two years ago,” said Choy.

Certified as an expert witness after having his C.V. read out, he spent much of his time outlining mental illness and what constitutes delusional.

“There are more common delusions and the more common we see with a psychiatric disorder are ones involving paranoia,” he said. “He wasn’t able to appreciate that it was morally wrong, part of that delusion is being able to undertake that reality test.”

The court heard how Choy believed de Grood was already under the notion the war was coming when he arrived at the Butler Crescent home on the night in question.

He was able to interview de Grood for two hours on September 17th, 2014, five months after the incident.

At the time, de Grood was already being treated with risperidone which is an anti-psychotic drug.

“We knew it was going to be high profile,” he said. “Knowing this was a case where the outcome was quite tragic, we wanted to make sure that we got this right.”

“It’s not uncommon that an individual will be functioning very well and then all of the sudden have these delusions and beliefs,” he said.

According to Choy, there was no external cause that he could see, nothing that he or his family did that could have precipitated the tragic event of April 14/15, 2014.

“Sometimes it’s in the genes – sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw,” Choy talking about the randomness of schizophrenia.

In Choy’s report, which was officially unsealed by Justice Macklin, he writes:

“It appears that Mr. de Grood had suffered from a psychotic episode. The disorientation and delusions identified at the time of the offenses and his response to treatment would not be atypical of a severe psychotic disorder. It is not clear to me at this time whether the underlying illness is schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or schizo-affective disorder. Though a prior diagnosis of substance abuse may have been relevant while Mr. de Grood was in high school, it does not appear that substance abuse plays a role in the most recent psychotic illness.”

He testified de Grood had dealt with a previous cocaine problem and his bank accounts were being monitored by family members at the time.

“Mr. de Grood presented as fit to stand trial from a psychiatric perspective. He clearly understood the charges he was facing, the nature and object of the proceedings including the role of various court personnel, the options available to him, and generally, the potential outcomes of the trial. He would have no difficulty in communicating and directing defense counsel.”

Further in his correspondence to a Dr. Zedkova he says:

“I asked Mr. De Grood about the ways he was feel better in the last few months since starting his medication (risperidone 3 mg in the morning and 1 mg at night) after he was admitted to the hospital. He indicated that he realized he had believed unreal things. He described that, since starting treatment, he believes that hospital staff were Nazis who are trying to kill him had dissipated wherein he realized this was false. He stated that the medication also helped in decreasing his belief in reincarnation and this also decreased his suicidal ideation. He advised that the medication decreased his depression in that his mood has improved and his appetite has returned. Finally, he reported that the auditory hallucinations he had experience gradually dissipated and at this time he no longer hears voices. He described that all of these improvements occurred in a gradual fashion.”

Choy says they gave special consideration to the fact he may be faking his illness, but found any kind of similar thought would have taken him months to plan the killings.

He adds they also considered medical or somatic reasons for the psychiatric findings, formal psychological testing and direct interviews of collateral sources.

In cross-examination, Neil Wiberg questioned Choy on the few amounts of lucidity and clarity shown by the suspect, leading up to the event and afterwards.

Wiberg wanted to know if it’s possible de Grood may have faked the entire thing with his educational background in both psychology and law.

The psychiatrist testified he was initially quite reluctant up on their first meeting and had to be reassured that he wasn’t there just to put him in jail.

He told Wiberg he’s seen people both aware of the NCR defence and unaware of it and it did give him cause for concern.

“I tried to make sure I didn’t have any preconceived notions about the outcome,” he said.

The expert also told the Justice just because one is psychotic, it doesn’t mean they have a loss of memory and there were several times de Grood himself had to be segregated.

Choy also mentioned if de Grood is indeed found “not criminally responsible”, he may still live the rest of his life in custody.

Testimony continues later Wednesday afternoon.

660’s Ian Campbell is following the trial:

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